It really bothers me when I see the pundits and other right-wingers being so opposed to building new mosques in the United States. The controversy doesn't just apply to the proposed Ground Zero mosque; some of the same people are opposed to a new mosque being built in Tennessee. Local pastors are speaking out against it. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I want more mosques to be built, I am an evangelical Christian… I don't like it when any religion but mine scores converts. But you better believe I am going to defend the 1st amendment rights of Muslims. Religious freedom is for every religion. Not just Christianity.
I suppose the controversy stems from an irrational fear of Islam. Understand this: we are NOT at war with Islam. We are at war with Muslim extremists. Comparing the terrorists we are fighting to mainstream Islam is exactly like comparing the KKK to mainstream Christianity. Think about it: the KKK claims to do what they do in defense of white Christians. They believe they are soldiers of God. But if someone judged you based on the hate and violence they have perpetrated you would probably be very offended. Another example is Eric Rudolph. In his mind, he was acting as a Christian doing God's will. What if someone called you a hate monger and sited Rudolph being a member of your faith as an example? I bet you would say, "He just says he's a Christian, he's not a real Christian. He has it all wrong." And, you would be right. But, that is how the vast majority of Muslims feel when you compare their faith and what how they worship to the terrorists of 911. There are over one BILLION Muslims in the world. 99% of them don't hate us and don't consider us the infidel.
You might say, "I don't mind building new mosques, just not so close to Ground Zero. That's rubbing salt in the wound." That's one way of looking at it. I say it would be an extraordinary testament to America's tolerance and willingness to accept mainstream Muslims as a part of our community.
I have said this before and I'll say it again: if you care about your freedom of worship, you have to care about the freedom of worship for those who you disagree with. Imagine if a misguided member of your church blows up an abortion clinic. Then imagine members of the public wanting to shut your church down as a result. Imagine them accusing your pastor of being a terroist. Then imagine the government wanting to freeze your church's missionary spending. Now you can perhaps understand what it's like to be a Muslim living in America. And THAT'S why defending the freedom of worship, wherever it is attacked, is so important to me. Because, one day, my freedom might come under attack too.
Julie:
ReplyDeleteUnlike you believe, I believe we are at war with Islam...They declared War on the world YEARS ago...True "Islam" is against us. Now there are those not as "strong " in there faith, But oh. ....you need to learn a few things. It is NOT irrational to have a fear of Islam....
EVERY Copy of Koran has these things...now some just chose to "pick the parts they like" just like some Christians, ...
Courtney:
even if this is true, should we hate muslims who don't want to kill us and just want to pratice their faith in peace?
Julie:
There are plenty of other countries the can practice it in if they wish....
There trying to Laugh at us and celebrate the destruction of the World Trade Centers if they build this mosque...
Courtney:
as a prodistant, you're point of refrence on who God is is based entirly on the Bible. Other most other religions don't take thier "holy book" as literally...
Julie:
Who says I"m "Protestant "...LOL, but it's okay. I am a born again Yeshua Believing , Hebrew roots studying, Saved by grace girl...with personal relationship with Christ, the one and only Son of God, part of the Trinity;Father,Son, Holly Spirit. Yes My base for God is His Torah ...He says there He is the same yesterday, today and forever, so where else would I look but to His first words?...and I"m sorry they don't take the word for what it is, but some of them DO.
Courtney:
put your comments on my blog.. i want to get a dialouge going..
plus, i am a better argue-er than you and i want the world to know it.
you are a better speller, i am sure. i wll consede that
Julie: I have reflected. I have a response of my own. All tho I may not be the best at "debating" ...I am blessed with words, and friend's who know even more than I do who may chose to express information for themselves. ...you may hear from them...
In the mean time. My Blog is waiting for you.
Julie~ Shalom
http://jewlsleftovers.blogspot.com/2010/08/i-am-glad-freedom-of-worship-is-part-of.html
You are a Protestant. Everything you just described about your faith is a Protestant point of view. I knew that about you because I lived and worked with you for 9 months, at a Protestant camp. But if you don't want to call yourself that: fine. It doesn't matter for the sake of this debate.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to be saying that you believe the majority of Islam is either actively and violently involved in jihad against all non-Muslims or they are quietly supporting these jihadists behind the scenes while telling the rest of us they only want to practice their peaceful religion.
I obviously disagree with this view but my question is this: if it is true, what do you suggest we do? Do we abridge our founding principles of freedom of religion and make Islam illegal? Do you want to go to war with a BILLION people over religion? My point is this: Islam has been with us for 1400 years and is here to stay. There ARE moderate, peaceful Muslims. The fastest way to turn moderate, peaceful Muslims into violent, radical jihadists is to not allow them to practice in peace.
Put yourself in the hypothetical I discussed in my blog about the abortion clinic bombing. You would be furious if the public's opinion of your faith turned because of some nut-job radical. You would be furious if you freedom of religion was threatened as a result. Do you really expect moderate Muslims to feel differently?
One, I never said I was not Protestant. I was just point out your assumption; that you should not assume. Then I went on to further define myself, So that what, and how I believe would be known and Understood.
ReplyDeleteI am saying if a person doesn't believe and follow the whole Koran,(what you call a moderate of there faith) they should not call them self a muslim. Then they wouldn't even have to worry that I say the twin towers were a muslim attack. I believe the Holly Bible to be the whole, inflammable word of God. I don't pick just parts of it to follow.
Also, I made plenty of other points on my blog, but you don't even seem to care to comment there...?...
Like i said, freedom to faith/ and worship does not a mosque to be built.
...oh. and like i said in my bog also...I did put myself in your hypothetical ...but your hypothetical is not found ...you use an "misguided Person"/ "nut job radical" was to be extreme. You ask me to think about how Muslim's would feel. Your forgetting that "Radical" as you call them Muslim ARE the true Muslim. So when you make the "Moderate" Muslim "Normal" and say these others are the extreme...No. Islam Started 100% Koran Driven WAR Driven jihad for every Muslim...So "Nut jobs" yes. They exist. There are those who are "watered" down ...if you will, what is politically correct to call "moderate" . .
I never said these people where not to feel furious tho. I never said, as far as i can recall, that they are not to have freedom of religion. I'm just saying. America has been far to tolerant. And the "Moderate" Muslim can have there freedom of religion, without a Mosque.
responded to your blog. Responding to this post would be a lot easier if it were written in a language resembling English. Try proof-reading. It helps.
ReplyDeleteI must apologize. I didn't realize how simple the solution to 1400 years of Islamic/Western relations is. Your idea about convincing people who consider themselves life-long Muslims that they are, in fact, not true Muslim is pure genius. We should just tell them they are NOT true Muslims, and if they were, they would pick up their AK47 and join their "true" Islamic brothers in jihad against the West. You should call your senator with that brilliant idea right now.
Allow me to let you see what this ridiculous argument would sound like if used you used it against Christians: If you believe that the "holly" Bible is the "inflammable" word of God, then why do you go against what the burning bush says in 1 Timothy 2:19 and braid your hair? If you want to continue braiding your hair, you can't call yourself a true Christian. But, that's no big deal. Just call yourself something else and find a new "holly' book.
Like I said on your blog, apparently, you don't understand what freedom is. If a moderate Muslim can't have a mosque to worship in, he is NOT free.
a mosque is not entirely a "place of worship" It is there symbol of domination. Even Muslims Oppose the Mosque at ground zero!
ReplyDelete...oh, and you added a one. 1 Timothy 2:9 (not vs 19)talks about not braiding hair...honestly, I don't think I really noticed that before, and need to read through it again, and in the Hebrew, and grasp the full context. If it ends up saying not to braid my hair. I will make sure I never do again..... ...oh, and like i was trying to point out before. About you assuming. I can't remember when i braided my hair last. So you have NO Place to assume to judge ME, about MY hair. ...when I in fact, don't braid it. So In fact, my "informative" information, was not ridiculous. And...if it is the word of God, to that that it IS, then it is a BIG deal. so don't say its not. anytime we don't obey God is a big deal. I understand freedom. I'm still not opposing freedom. I'm opposing a Mosque. The symbol of captivity. The END of freedom as we know it.
Neither did I say I want what you call "Moderate" Islam/Muslim to go "Radical"...Im just saying they should take a step to separate themselves if there not the same. ...
...
Cortney. Your my friend, but all i see is a two face from you... You start this blog saying ...I am a christian, I don't want anything but my own to score points, Its not like I want another one built...I just want to defend freedom. But so far, all you do is defend Islam/and the Mosque. You lost your veiw on freedom from the point you said "I'm a better arguer than you..." from then on all I see is you being yourself, I"m right, your wrong, and I'm going to be right because I can say it better"
I was never in this to argue. I want you to see truth. If your not, I"m done talking. Go read and listen to the resources of those who have the solutions (who are personal friends with senators!) and the personal testimony and experience...other than that.(i've listed quite a few, and have more to offer if you wish I can blog also.) I have nothing else to tell you.
oh, and mister doesn't use his spell check, don't crack on my "un proof read" messages. It is in English...
ReplyDeleteFor heaven's sake, Julie, I am not judging you about your hair. That passage in 1st Timothy is Paul asking women to dress modestly. I diberetly took it out of contex to make a point. I am just pointing out how silly your argument of "they don't follow the Koran, therefore they shouldn't call themselves Muslims" is.
ReplyDeleteMainstream Islam does take steps to distance themselves from radicals. They say all the time: "These people (radical jihadists) have perverted Islam." There are "moderate" Muslims fighting against "radical" Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan right as we speak. I mean actually trying to kill them. What would you have the moderates them do? Deny their faith? That's not freedom, that's oppression.
"Cortney. Your my friend, but all i see is a two face from you... You start this blog saying ...I am a christian, I don't want anything but my own to score points, Its not like I want another one built...I just want to defend freedom. But so far, all you do is defend Islam/and the Mosque."
What? That make's no sense! How are you defending freedom by wanting to deny a religion’s freedom to build a place of worship? You only want "your own" to score points? I can only assume this means you don't want Islam to grow, you only want Christianity to grow. Well, me too, but not at the expense of denying FREEDOM OF RELIGON. How does vehemently opposing a Muslim's freedom to build a place of worship help in evangelism? The way to evangelize is to show people the love, grace, and peace that only comes from Jesus Christ. All I do is defend Islam? No. As I said in the original post, I think it is important to defend freedom of religion in America wherever it is oppressed, regardless of if I agree with the religion. That’s why it’s so important to me. Because if I do not defend everyone’s right to worship, my right to worship might someday also be restricted. So, will defend freedom of religion. Even Islam. Even Mormons.